E: When I first saw your work I was immediately struck by its beauty and melancholy. I couldn’t really explain even to myself what I was feeling and why. I have a very romantic relationship with art and experience it intuitively. I don’t immediately need to understand something rationally if I have some grasp of it with my other senses. It is strange how this type of experience really works. I think this is a grand mystery that no one can define explicitly. Who knows why we love the things we love? Your paintings depict pictorially what I feel abstractly and intuitively. They give a name or an image to the faceless and nameless within me, and yet they remain a mystery unto themselves. Your recent series of paintings depict what I might call technological nether worlds, dream swamps, or places from the past or the future that are now fading from memory. Usually there is a solitary figure observing, working, or struggling within these silent or hostile environments. It appears that you are painting simultaneous worlds; one is the interior landscape of identity or the soul. The other is of the exterior world, of places and of things that we can see, touch, or remember from our past or future past. At the time of this interview you haven’t yet started the major work for your upcoming exhibition because you will be creating it in the gallery during the run of the show. So at this point it is still a bit of a mystery to me as to what direction you will take it. You told me not too long ago that you might title the exhibition “Youth Park.” Is that still the case?

J: I don’t know.

E: Some of your recent work I have seen is titled “Youth Park.” I am curious about this park and what it means to you. Is it specific to your childhood? Is it a metaphor or an actual place that is common to all youths across China?

J: None of the above. The youth park I paint is located behind my campus. When I was studying in the university I always took a walk in the park. There were many youth parks across China. There is a youth park in my hometown too. To me, Youth Park is a concept, which constituted an integral part of the society at that time. It’s also true about Children’s Palace, an institute that conducts outside school education for children and provides them with cultural activities. But during my last visit to my hometown, I found that the Children’s Palace there, where I always played when I was young, had been replaced by a disco.

E: So the children’s world, the playground, has been taken away as a result of commercialization? Innocence replaced by greed?

J: Most people would agree with that. They believe it is the exterior elements that made youth parks disappear but I think youth parks disintegrate interiorly because people do not need them any more. So it is not true that youth parks are replaced by discos, instead, they die naturally by themselves.

E: You talk about the interior and the exterior and it seems that the Youth Park is the meeting ground for these two. You have talked with me before about the hopes and dreams of children and the past and present state of the Park. Are these all linked in some way through the image of the Park? Is the Park in your paintings a metaphor for these deeper issues?

J: I am not sure. It is just a park.

E: Our hopes and dreams, our attitudes and needs change as we grow older. Perhaps this is illustrated in the Park and its state of decay? What were your hopes as a youth and are they still alive in some way or have they changed? What about art? Have you always wanted to be an artist?

J: I went to art school because I didn’t want to learn math.

E: That’s funny. Math was my worst subject too and maybe it is one of the things that pushed me into art and art school? But maybe we were just born to be artists but had to learn through circumstances which way to go? We all need mentoring throughout our lives.

J: When I was in primary school I was always criticized by my math teacher. My primary school is the best in my hometown and I was in the best class in my school. But I was the worst student in my class.

E: I understand completely about being criticized by a primary school teacher. Even at a young age I was a square peg they tried to fit into a round hole.

J: I can still remember a math exam taken by dozens of classes from more than ten primary schools in my district. Half a month later after the exam, the teacher in charge of my class pushed open the door with a green face, and then put a pile of paper on the desk, saying “today we have launched a satellite into the sky.” (In the dialect in Northeast China, launching a satellite means doing a very proud thing. Here the teacher said it sarcastically) “A student in our class only got 9 points out of 100!” I am that student. I got the lowest mark in the whole district, only 9 points!

E: In college, before I changed my study to art, I got relatively low grades, especially in math. But when I switched to art all of my grades in all of my classes improved, except math of course. I had finally found myself. 

J: Actually I began to engage in art at a very early age, before I got that 9 mark in the math exam. Most of the textbooks we used at that time were featured with black-and-white illustrations. When I was in class I didn’t pay too much attention to the teacher but scribbled on my books creating my own art. I was so eager to paint that I did not want to listen to even one word from the teacher. I just automatically scribbled and painted on my book. I was always criticized, punished or even beaten up by the teacher for what I was doing. But this kind of sharp criticism could not threaten me. I was so obsessed with painting at that time that I think there was no need for me to accept what was said in the textbooks.

E: My primary school classmates would not allow me to draw in their coloring books. I didn’t have my own at the time. They said that I could not stay within the lines. I was always going beyond the prescribed lines in the book creating my own images and world. I was a little hurt that they would not share but it didn’t change who I was at that young age. I only could draw the way I knew how. I could not see or understand their lines. But that was then, why do you paint now?

J: I really don’t know what drives me to paint. I cannot explain why I am doing this but one thing is clear to me is that what I will not be doing. I don’t want to take other people as examples or criticize other people’s work, especially in China. I may not be so clear about what I want to do, but I am very clear what I do not want to do.

E: Some artists think they know why they paint. But I agree with your embracing of the unknown in yourself and in your work. I truly think artists really do not know why they do what they do or where it comes from. It is a great mystery. Your work is heavy with mystery.

J: Among my paintings, the most satisfactory pieces are the ones that I get by kneeling down, in other words, those that are given to me. It is hard for me to explain the source of the inspiration. But I am aware that many of my artworks may not be created by myself. Maybe I am just a pen or a hand (being directed by another source).

E: Not being able to explain inspiration is an honest perspective. I have mentioned earlier that your work is full of mystery. It may be important for viewers to not fully understand your work literally, but to let it have its own unique life within them? Maybe that source of “inspiration” will speak in different ways to different people and reveal more fully what it is all about based on their personal histories and needs?

J: All you said is correct but I never thought about it before. In fact I think what usually blocks people from true art is perhaps the artwork itself.

E: Yes, people buy and collect what they love but they do not always understand what it is all about. But we cannot fault the object for that. The artwork is not necessarily a bad thing, it is the worship of the object that actually blocks people from the essence of it, the  “true art.”

This exhibition is more of a project. You will be working on a large-scale painting for the duration of the show, creating a work of art that seems to have no beginning and no end.  In a certain sense you have dismissed the artwork and are revealing the process or the spirit of the work instead. Is this your intention?

J: I change my mind everyday, which makes the gallery’s life difficult. The gallery has constantly been in a nervous state in order to prepare for the exhibition. I also feel very stressed. But the stress I have is completely different from that of the gallery. I am concerned about if I am able to hold the exhibition in a natural way. What I want is to make it happen naturally not artificially. It must merge into a particular time and a particular moment well. Whenever it starts it should start, and whenever it ends it should end naturally. It should not interfere in what is supposed to happen naturally. During the process, those people who are fated for the exhibition will find this period of time actually represents nothing. Perhaps when they see the exhibition it may not have any meaning for them at all, and it may also not have any meaning for them after they finish seeing the exhibition. There is a vast landscape of reality behind it. Fan Zhongyan, a famous statesman and litterateur in the North Song Dynasty said in his A Panegyric of the Yueyang Tower, one should neither be pleased by the external gains nor saddened by his personal losses. I think it’s essential meaning is that you should basically never have any psychological or emotional disturbance because of objective existence or the changes in the world. And you should also not feel pity for yourself --- not focusing on your own subjective feelings and not giving too much importance to your individual self.

E: Do you feel that you have to walk a tightrope to balance the two worlds of making art and exhibiting or selling work? Can your intentions be fully realized in a typical gallery context?

J: I never think of balancing these and never try to do that. If the gallery supports my exhibition, I will be able to resolve my concerns well. Time will tell and they will know what new art is about. So the concerns of the gallery are based upon what they historically consider as successful art.

E: I guess Time is a great teacher for us all. Nevertheless, what you are doing is courageous. Whether it is successful in the end or unsuccessful is immaterial.

J: I can tell from the faces of many people around me that they are actually very concerned about if it can be successful. If you consider success or not as the only measuring criterion you have only two prospects of life: success or failure. When you take a wider look, success or failure is only part of your life, just a part of the complete world. If you look much more broadly, you may even not see success or failure. So I only hope this exhibition can have a natural beginning and natural ending, as I said before. Success and failure may both happen but they are not decisive. So as I said, what actually blocks one from art is the artwork itself. No one actually likes or dislikes art.

E: So time will tell?

J: Yes, I believe time will tell. When we look back into what we say today, they may understand what I am concerned about, and at the same time forget what they are concerned about. What new art is will never be realized by the gallery or even current professionals until they see in retrospect. If anybody declares they know the future of art, they must be lying. But there must be some good artists who can feel and sense what new art and the future of art may be. We can just feel and sense this. So at this point you can only trust feelings. What do you think we are supposed to believe in, the past? I will never believe in the past experience. However, most of the people who are engaged in the art community today will only rely on the past experience. So if an artist believes what he is feeling, he is actually struggling to move forward, but most of the art practitioners walk backwards based on past successful experiences. So at this time, we can only believe those people who have the direction of feeling. The person who walks backwards will never reach the end of the road. Hence, my concern and the concerns of the gallery are actually applicable to the whole society. Many people are complaining that some good artists are individualistic, lonely and solitary. But that is because they just don’t have too much to say to the pubic.

E: An exhibition like this has the potential to educate the public in new ways. The fact that you are also a teacher mirrors your identity as an artist. You are an influence to the students as well as the art world and society in general. Being an artist is so much more than just making art.

J: I will try my best but if the objective conditions fail to allow me to move forward, I can do nothing. Your statement reminded me of something. I once talked with one of my friends about what if there was no oil and petrol left. He was a very religious person, and said God will never give up on us. He says everything comes from the sun. The oil and petrol we use today are produced as a result of photosynthesis, which requires the sun to participate. The sun is always there, never changing his love for us. We don’t need to worry about that. There are still many different kinds of energies besides oil and petrol. It’s only whether you can see it and believe it. In most cases they disappear without being seen. Someone may ask if an artwork disappears in the end what meaning will it leave? There are many things we all experience, like the most beautiful memory, life experience and moment. We all have something that we will forever cherish in our hearts such as the most magnificent sunrise or sunset. In the real world, the scene itself may disappear forever but you may never forget that feeling until you die. You have already owned that feeling, but how do you reflect on it? For many beautiful things, you own them the moment when you see them. Some people may even translate this beauty into words and give this beauty as a gift to others. Ownership can never be measured by the value of the object itself. Marcel Duchamp once says everyone is an artist. Actually most people may not understand that. I even see someone using these words in advertisement. But they may not understand that.